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  3. pvp balance

    Appreciate your childish communicational skills and complete lack of any logical argumentation or reasoning. (if I could ask a MOD, please remove from above post the quote of my entire opening message as it only spams the thread)
  4. pvp balance

    OMG!!! It's bullshit.. The server will remain as it should be, that's it, that's all.
  5. pvp balance

    Anyways tell me why exactly you wouldn't want such a change to be implemented. I know that you feel like you can do something on each class during mass PvP and I agree with that although "something" has a definitely different meaning for us both But why do you think that such optional mechanic (if someone doesn't like it, he simply doesn't have to use a bow from long range) wouldn't enchance the gameplay and/or wouldn't be healthy for the game. For me it's simple, if you think that you don't need the ability to attack with a bow from full range as a i.e. tyrant, you can simply not do so, but if you feel like your class can't actively participate in mass PvPs, now you would actually have an option to get some fun there. Maybe you are afraid of unbalancing some classes (which) or something else of what I didnt think of is your concern?
  6. pvp balance

    Actually i dont think it needs changing. What you say is true early game, with laaaaarge open fields and then archers can own you - true. But once u get into cruma tower they are restricted. Antharas Lair = just try to run away enjoy being gangraped by mobs (and dropping ur life) ToI also similar thing. Other than that most classes have at least something to do vs rangeds: aggression on tanks, warlord has ranged stun atk, even gladi has ranged stun atk, daggers have hide, tyrant has rush, destro has demolition impact or w/e its called. Its just the bounty hunter/warsmith that have nothing (NEEDS CHANGING) and BD/SWS but they are supports anyways. The way aggression works for example is it should force the enemy to run towards you for 2 seconds, which is great anyways. And should even cancel spellcasting. The biggest problem with archers is they dont come alone. Or mages, they also dont come alone. They come like gypsies u know ^^ You hit one, it brings the entire family When i was farming with my friends, small party, 2-3 active ppl, even some boxes, we didnt die becoz of range, we died becoz they came with 7 active, fullbuff, hihger lvl, higher gear, prepared and start with stunshot. Before we even see they are coming coz we are in the middle of a conversation about something totally different lol... What i would discourage is PK/this abuse of power from big clans.
  7. 8, bump
  8. I would like to ask all of the people who are going to post in this thread to restrain themselves from throwing out meaningless posts like "shit change, me want vanila classic" but instead explain why you think so while giving constructive arguments. In the end we all want to make this server work and be a fun place to play. I would like to discuss here a well-known issue which often leads to a very 1-sided PvP with only 3 type of classes being really usable (archer/nuker/support) while rendering others (mele fighters) completely inefficient. BOW/NUKE RANGE As we all know in the full buff and open zones PvP combination of 900 range on attacks and crazy DPS make's it so only archers and nukers can compete on a even basis. Most of mele type characters who think about closing the 900 distance in 98% of scenarios will die before even closing the gap. In my opinion this is a very flawed PvP concept heavily promoting/encouraging players to pick only 2 type of classes if they are thinking of being a factor in mass PvPs (excluding universal supports). This wouldn't be that big of an issue in games where players can easily switch classes or without that big of an investment can create new characters of a different class. In L2, once somebody decides to play a Tyrant he will have to spend months if not years in order to get his character into the late game state. Some hardcore grinders without a full time job/school can probably do it and create 2 or maybe 3 different classes to make themselves strong in small area PvPs, on Oly and in Mass PvP, but for most of the players it's not an option - at least not in a reasonable time frame. So what can we do about it and how to balance out this situation ? Decrease autoattack/nuke range Heavily Increase movement speed Increase autoattack range for fighter classes 1. Decrease autoattack/nuke range - this solution might seem to be the most obvious one, but I definitely wouldn't suggest it because it forces a number of different and unwanted balance changes: impacts fighting mobs, because nukers/archer will have smaller distance advantage on a mob, resulting in mob closing the gap faster and inflicting more dmg than it usually would do (CP's won't feel it, but solo players will) impacts efficiency of aoe skills because smaller range will mean that during bigger PvP fights, players will tend to stack on each other a lot more, thus resulting in AoE skills coming from classes like Warlord or Overlord becoming a lot stronger (and even without such change they are already really powerfull) 2. Heavy increase of movement speed - this one is very tricky as well and I wouldn't suggest it: impacts farming efficiency speed - faster/safer trains, easier to escape from mobs gives some classes unwanted synergy benefits, where classes like Tyrant or TH with dash, when factoring the increased movement speed could be so fast that it would make it hard for other players to target them 3. Increase autoattack range for fighter classes - this in my opinion is a jackpot solution. How it would work: classes without bow attack range increase passive would gain the ability to attack from 900 range just like archers/mages do but with decreased dmg/penalty when distance to attacked target is less than 600 - deal their regular dmg like it is now (nothing changes) when distance to attacked target is more than 600 deal reduced dmg: 10-13% less dmg dealt for every 100 units over 600, this would mean that if a Gladiator wanted to attack with a bow target who was 900 units away, he would deal only 61-70% of his regular dmg with a bow Why do I think this change won't unbalance the game: Remember all fighter classes (excluding dagggers who might get a small overlook if such change was to be implemented) have already a rather low dmg with a bow due to lack of weapon mastery skills. Ofc this difference is negligable on lower levels but above 60s it's easy to notice the difference. At level 70 classes without a bow mastery are dealing probably around 70(?)% of a regular archer dmg (might be even less when factoring crit passives) so if you factor into that 70% additional 30-39% decrease coming from the long range penalty, such classes would deal only 42-50% of the dmg that a regular archer does. 50% is to small to make particular class strong with a bow, but at the same time it's enough to make it worthwile for those BDs/SWs/TANKs/Warlords etc to attack their enemies from distance when they don't have a real chance to close the gap and start attacking in mele range. Basically it would give people something to do in a mass PvP other than die while trying to close the gap. Damn if someone was bored, even a Prophet/Warcryer or a healer could start having their fun hitting ppl with a bow (but those would prob do only 24-30% dmg due the low STR attribute). Generally it would make the game feel more fluid, less 1 sided, and players who decided to pick a melee class because they like it, wouldn't get excluded from open zone PvPs. You could translate it like this: if fighter does 0,5 of archers dmg (and ofc archer does 1,0 of archers dmg), it means that: Standard archer party with Buffer+Healer has 6 DPS (5 archers + sws and bd with a bow) Standard mele party with Buffer+healer has 3,5 DPS (5 mele fighters with a bow and sws+bd with a bow) As you can see a regular archer party fighting at max range in an open PvP would still have a great edge (twice the DPS) over regular fighters party and would be heavily favored. But this way a fighter party at least has a tiny chance of actually outplaying the archer party with their kiting skills and winning the fight. Benefits of such a change: Every class becomes somewhat usefull during PvPs vs archers/mages Players who want to play non archer/nuker class wouldn't be that heavily discouraged/excluded from mass PvPs Creates more fighting scenarios and refreshes PvP schemes (nowadays PvP usually looks very repetitive) Makes it a lot more interesting to play some usually boring (to some) support classes (thus encouraging going main supports/crafters/spoilers over having only as boxes)
  9. 1+1 paid is perfect Auto loot just makes it 10x easier to bot , very big no (playing at russian Classic with Auto pick up atm) Every automated thing makes it easier to bot Due Premium Account : i rather pay for a 2nd Box then for boosters you have to buy to not get outlvld, so dont make the Premium Account to strong or make it only avaible after a week, so people dont get forced to buy it without beeing sure server is succesfull. Think its its very hard to make it fair, Just make them not to strong and dont open them to early, otherwise people full bootsted at opening are 20 lvl a head others You should really watch what Nc soft is doing with retail server since its going f2p aswell , maybe take over a bit of their donation concept
  10. Anyways, I do realise that I probably won't be able to put any common sense into heads of vet/no-life players who just want to spend their entire free time - every day grinding mobs over and over again, but the sad truth is that without us (casual players) who have only 2-4h a day to play the game you won't survive as a server. How many players with no-life there still are, who still wana grind for years on this particular server and not some classic club or official? 100 ? 150 ? Most of people who will come here will be the nostalgia guys who during prime times of L2 spent shi*t ton of time gearing and PvPing. These nostalgia people are usually willing to pay some cash and sustain the server to have a glimps of good old memories, but at the same time most of them now have a wife, got childrens and created a family thus can't rice that much anymore. So if you believe that people who have 2-4h a day because of their personal life should stfu and suffer or quit then be my guest ;] Make a x1 server and lets see how long it survives. Month ? Two months ? To put it in short: What I'm trying to achieve here is creating progression scheme where getting to 65-68 levels is time consuming but acomplishable after 3-5 months with a 2-4h of gameplay every day and then to give the ricers their grindfest and feel of achievement making levels 68-74 uncomparably slower so it takes great ammount of time to max out lvls giving the grinders a target which woudln't be achievable for casuals, but at the same time casuals with that 68 lvl could actually somewhat contest the grinders in PvPs. In the end I feel bad for Supreeme that he has to deal with community like this, because he wants to satisfy you all and make a really well rounded server, but you guys won't allow it to happen. Most of VETs have no clue what they actually want and instead will always cry "no modification, low rates, vanila classic!" even though everyone with at least 10 iq realises how flawed the classic design is(although sitll better than what they did after interlude. There are plenty of spots to tackle on (including balance changes) which would improve everyones gameplay drastically but VETs are still to stubborn and limited to understand and appreciate that effort.
  11. You should leave 1 main and 1 box surely, and if u add to it later as donation, than for me its ok, but you really should keep that 1 free box free. So poor ppl dont have to pay for it. And those who can afford more, will have the chance as the population decreases they can box 1 more later.
  12. 1 thing to mention tho, when i started on that server at grand opening, i was unemployed and found job later, after like 1 month into server. So i was able to be active. You want ppl to play spoilers actively, but they dont have time I was able to get filthy rich quickly, becoz i was greedy, didnt rly help my "clan" before contributing to clan hall (probably mistake on my part), and i was the first in all spoiling. Karmian gloves fabric HUGE advantage, i was the first, then later plated leather gaiters, then when i got strong enough then pl armor parts (from dragon bearer groups ... soloing it was fun lol) And i played like 10-12 hours a day, most ppl wont have that time. In order for ppl to pick a Bounty Hunter (or really any class) to play as main it needs to be useful. For example spoilers are awesome - in close combat. It has a lot of HP, heavy armor, no magic resist skill tho, but the hammer crush and the buff-removing stun also, and these are a lot of dmg and stun. IF the spoiler can get close it will own mages/archers. But it cant EVER EVER EVER get close for gods sake... or just rarely based on some smart play. If the spoiler doesnt have a rush/demolition impact or whatever its called or godforbid: Hide It will be useless. When i think of a character i want to play something that is useful, meaning this: - can farm solo if needed - can be useful for groups possibly - can do SOMETHING of use in PVP - can do at least something in olympiad Bounty Hunter does absolutely nothing in open field pvp. It can win in cruma tower, it can win later in AL where u cant run away without agroing 99999999 mobs on you, and maybe in TOI also. But still its slow. But in reality mages that are assholes will PK you in 5 shots, just before you reach up to them. If they are slightly higher lvl than u and equal geared. If that doesnt change, it will be just a frustrating thing to play BH. Especially when u realize that all ur money is worth not much, becoz higher gear is crafted and not bought on market. Same goes for Prophet. Id love to play a damn prophet main... but it cant farm alone. Now it cant do anything on oly either coz no mana burn, no erase, no nothing. Ffs... Id play paladin, or elf knight, or darkelf knight. Maybe i will play SK becoz thats reasonable at least, but the other 2: pala and TK are just bad. And i dont like dark avenger... Id play warlock, becoz i like that but honestly... a summoner that cant summon friend... god please. And than we have summon in goddard patch, probably months fater opening, we still dont have any party buffs, meaning parties dont care bout me (ok, im a solo guy mostly anyways + Kai the cat is strong, so i can solo strong mobs with 1 boxed support. but still its betterif its useful for something in party) I wouldnt mind playing main BD/SWS if it was able to do anything... but it cant. It doesnt even have heavy armor mastery post lvl40... like cmon every class has armor mastery after 40 as well... they only have magic resist. There is 1 tiny use if agro cancels spellcasting (as it should), then its somewhat useful. But still, not 1 skill for solo farming, weak dmg, decreasing pdef for fighting mobs... Anyways if u add just 1 skill to bounty hunter ( eg.: rush) and buff the one that heals you when u get attacked slightly at least, then i will play BH probably. Otherwise i dont think id play it again.
  13. Update: Mages (More like ranged characters will benefit from this) Since melee ones will still have to run to mob and kill it while others range kill it.
  14. Auto Loot was already a donation option under my toughts during Erica Server but i never got it implemented or announced. Other options are just like a Bot
  15. My experiance showed me that a box is very important for most players i was playing with ... if you are not able to use any third party software on the server (walker, adrenalin auto clickers and so on) there is no problem with boxes imho ... but as most of us know, there is always a loophole ... that's why I am not that sure about boxes ... I always was using boxes too, and I would miss sth without it . Btw I was only using it to buff myself in towns or as a moving wh ... Long story short ... I like boxes, but I hate all these cheaters and abusers
  16. Guess we have to terminate you then Kakash1 :(

  17. Earlier
  18. For me optimal solution would probably be ability to have only 1 BOX. Paid or not paid, 3 clients are actually creating a fully buffed for farming purposes NUKER and almost fully buffed archer (missing only song of hunter) which heavily discourages random players from making supports and playing with other random players and ... 2 Players with 6 clients are already a fully buffed party and with a boxed spoiler if you allow for 3 clients per player. In my opinion at the start of server 2-3(?) months everyone should get one free box. This starting 2 months would be a time for a player to check how is the server working, does he likes the scripting, community, enjoys playing etc. Then after 2 months you could make the ability to have a box - payable. If someone liked the server he would most likely stay here and pay for the box without a hasitation (there's a question regarding the price as well) and we all know that there's much higher chance of player liking the server when there are no box armies on the server. It would be fair and in my opinion it would attract more players then the 1-1-1 solution. On the other hand if you allowed for only 1 box and it would be a premium one since the very begining, some players (this is the case for me) could feel heavily discouraged because I'm asked/"forced" to pay at the very begining even though I have no guarantee that the server will be fun and that it will survive longer than 3 months. Some players could even decide to not start playing at all (probably again my case) because they wouldn't want to risk wasting money on a server that will die in 2 months. On the other hand if you will choose the scenario with main+freemium+premium box, some players could get discouraged at the very begining because they wouldn't want to play on a box server and wouldn't even join us. Plenty of players (I would say that over 90%) would probably decide that they don't need another box and would stay with their 1 freemium box (so the income would be marginal anyway). If they played with a friend it would render that premium box even that much less needed/valuable. Of course non of the scenarios is ideal and server needs the money to be run so my idea as mentioned would be to: start with just 1 box - free one (so max 2 clients for everyone) after some time (it might be 2-3(?) months from server start, or 2-3(?) months from first account creation), dependant on how server would be developing, we could loose the ability to use 2 clients from this time on boxes would be a premium (payable) content but we could make couple of interesting tweaks to make it more appealing and (free)player-friendly: PAYMENT SCHEME: Give players ability to buy a premium box for different time frames i.e.: 1 month (0,99 $) / 12 months (6,99 $) or forever (15 $) (this way if players didn't decide yet if they want to stay on the server, they wouldn't feel so forced into spending their cash on a risky investment) Give players ability to earn a ticket to temporary rent a box via "tokens" (i.e. 1 token = 2h pass for having a box),: they could drop from RB (this connects to my idea of removing RB`s drops), could be won in a tournament, won in a lottery (decent sever money sink), received when capturing a castle, etc > This way players who will NEVER donate for a free to play game (they are still wellcomed since they are increasing the online and boosting gameplay experience of other players - we all know how it works), would gain the feeling like they won't be always handicapped and can actually acquire most of the PREMIUM content while not paying a cent <-- thus not having a bad feelings when looking at the donation content and getting motivated to join us > On the other hand players who planned/were prepared for making a donation in order to receive a box slot, would most likely still buy it in order to not deal with the whole token gathering/time wasting/constant time limitation crap > One more thing could be done to heavily incentivise purchase of a box slot while not annoying fremium players - giving the boxes some additional functions/macros etc to make them semi-automatic. I know that most of stuf nowadays can be done while rightclicking on a well designed macro command, but most of the time they aren't perfect. Maybe our DEV team coul prepare some custom macros/utility/commands allowing us to semi-automate our boxes i.e.: picking up loot from killed by us mobs (you can do a macro to pickup when killing mobs in melee range, but when you are nuker/archer it's hard to do a reliable macro) setting up when to heal/buff <-- some UI window where we choose target of a heal and % of his hp, below which box starts to cast a particular spell <-- this could be enabled only when fighting MOBS, to not make a pvp BISHOP macro assisting someone/different players in the team macro that would allow us to send a character to a particular time i.e.: we are ending our farm in CT and want to send our char to hunter village - we select the town and our char uses SOE and then runs to gatekeeper porting from town to town untill he gets to HV (for warsmiths) macro to keep on crafting particular item as long as they have mana etc.
  19. @Supreme Ye, I'm aware of the issue of experienced players blindly screaming "I want no midifications!" and I'm happy to hear you realise that too. Basically we have a problem of two groups saying that they have completely opposite needs: hardcore grinders who want vanila servers AND casual gamers who are simply looking for a pleasent gameplay in a Lineage 2 world. One group can't survive without another. The funny fact is that in reality mentioned groups want something similar: a stable and fun environment where they can grind, evelup and progress. My solution on the subject of "people screaming, no modifications!" is to simply not communicate most of the smaller tweaks you would like to implement. I mean if you wanted to make it so Bounty Hunter needs to inflict 50% of the dmg in order to sweep a mob, that's obviously a big and very unintuitive thing so it would have to be explained very well but if you wanted to add something small like additional spawns (of monsters that already exist in particular area) in order to "FIX" some completely unplayable zones which nobody ever enters due to how little spawns are there, then in my opinion that doesn't need to be announced/mentioned. Most of veteran players won't enter these areas anyways because they know there is nothing waiting for them in a classic setup, while other players (casuals) who are looking for a decent spot to farm, but got kicked out of other places by CP's would wander around and discover a lot of very fun places to farm. Nobody would loose on it because both sides would get similary effective farming zones, vet's would have their official spawn zones in the usuall grind zones, while casual players would have their own places allowing them to have a pleasant gaming experience. In the end L2 farming is about fighting mobs, not running miles to reach another mob. Matter of communicating changes to the community: Anyways more on the subject: Core to making all of the changes/tweaks is to make people understand that: in current CLASSIC setup 95% casual players on a private server will leave before achieving 60 lvl <-- making any server slowly die without casual players, veterans won't have enemies to fight against (VETs won't have noobs to prove their prowess on) <- no real, long-term purpose to farm small-moderate balancing of farming efficiency of: solo <-> 2-5 man parties <-> 9 man parties progression still won't diminish/ofset the gap between playing 2-3 hours and 6-8 hours a day, so nobody has to worry that their extra time investment will get nulified by discussed changes economy needs to be adjusted because l2 economy is a completely unbalanced crap classes like bounty hunter/warsmith have to be tweaked in a way which promotes active gameplay rather then being an obligatory box character in order to not fall too far behind compared to the top CP's/CLANs And I strongly doubt that trying to communicate with allies/clans in order to mantain server balance is a solution to all of the issues. You will always find some trolls/griefers who won't listen and be a cause of dozens casual players leaving the server. Some semi-automated solutions have to be made to adjust unhealthy behaviours. I.e. making global timers informing when an EPIC gona respawn and fixing those respawns so they spawn at the time of biggest online on the server. Giving players a buff (usable once a day) that make's it impossible for other players to attack you for 1-1.5h from the activation. Greatly decreasing EPICs drop rate if there was no PvP prior to an ally taking it down etc.... I think it all can be done with just a small ammount of brainstorming, communities good will and Supreem's scripting skillZ You are the example of how Bounty Hunter should be played (in order to not make this class unbalanced) and I have nothing against that kind of gameplay and wouldn't want to affect it. You pick weaker class, have to work hard alone, but the benefits of spoiling mobs rewards you for your efforts. Sadly you are just a rare example of a good roleplayer. 95% of bounty hunters on the server will be CP boxes. They won't be played actively but simply cast 2 spoil festivals every 1.5 minute (when train arrives) and sweep some mobs which they didn't damage at all. That's why I would like to add the obligatory requirement of having to inflict at least 50% of the dmg to a MOB in order to activate sweeper condition. This wouldn't impact players like you almost at all, while would GREATLY diminish income of most clans/CPs who already have a big advantage <- and make your playstyle actually help you to soften up the GAP between your solo gameplay and their 9 man training. Regarding NPC crafting materials, ye I know about him, but if I'm correct he requires you to waste RCP which each craft (which is insane) and doesn't craft shots making him useless for the most part. Another storry is the lack of A-B crafting.
  20. That is true, altho i might vote for this 1 main 1 box + 1 premium anyways for server sustainability.
  21. I read everything, About the Clan/ally leaders i've always asked that when I see its necessary. Off course in a way is interacting with gameplay for some players, but im not changing anything, im just asking. That's why i've always said Server get's killed by Community actions. But there are ways in which i can restrict / limit / control everyone in which Privacy Policy and User Agreement will cover it for me Here's another Review from a formal cl: https://lightenia.wordpress.com/lineage-2/review/
  22. Idk man... on 1 hand i like what u say and i aggree with that but in a lot of cases i disaggree. (Numbers not in order you wrote, but just how i think them out ) 1. CPs/groups have advantage over casuals: yes and the problem is they abuse it and they even flame! If i was GM for me its instaban, wouldnt care if its biggest clan or what: kill 20 lvls lower and flame = 1 week ban; enjoy shithead. I mean who wants to play with ppl like that. Or you can try something like newbie PK protection extended to not only low lvls but any1. Lets say you had that buff, than you couldnt be PKed by some1 15lvls higher than you. And all couldtake that buff, becoz lets say you are 45lvl, but some 76lvl archers are killing you in ivory crater. Not with this buff, they cant anymore. So basically just extend the same buff that newbies can claim from the Gatekeeper anyways. 2. Shops dont disconect after a server restart, this is not L2 interlude anymore. Welcome to classic. 3. I wouldnt delete the crafter and spoilers from the game. I was main spoiler, i liked it, it was kinda awful in PvP but something for something. Lot of money for not afk farming but active grinding all day long. Its not at all an afk process but i farmed alone so maybe thats why. Btw the NPC creating materials at a fixed low fee already exists: it is called Blacksmith (tho it cant make B grade) 4. Gatekeepers are limited: aggreed, wouldnt say a word for a few more TP locations 5. Class quests: aggreed, personally i never do them just donate or whatever... 6. Raid boss advantage for groups: well if you make a 3x drop rate for monsters, and a 1x for bosses, than the advantage is not so big. The really big problem for servers is that politics are fked up. Like L2 Red we had 3 of the biggest clans ally together and just beat every1. I mean there wasnt any not even potential enemy for them whatsoever. They walked into Core room and killed Core. No1 came there to contest. No1 even thought about it happening. Very few ppl even know other than themselves that they are killing it. That was the time that we kinda realised that L2 Red was over. So maybe Supreme should talk to clan/ally leaders and have a say in politics. SUPREME PLS READ THIS: YOU SHOULD CONSIDER HAVING A WORD WITH CLAN/ALLY LEADERS AND TRY TO CONVINCE THEM TO MAKE SUPER OP ALLIANCES AND SUCH. FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU SEE 3 OF BIGGEST CLANS ALLYING, YOU SHOULD TRY ASK THEM TO SPLIT UP AT LEAST 1-2 AND FIND SOME MORE SMALLER CLANS ON THE 1CLAN SIDE. caps off... btw: increase alliance size from maximum 3 to 4-5. That can help also. 7.I think that the best advice that is possible to do is the party XP bonus rework. Give little to no bonus to big parties and give much higher bonus for parties 2-5 members. I dont know what the actual numbers are for bonus but i think leave solo players as they are (i mean players without party at all), and give a really decent bonus for parties with 2-5 members. Like this: 2members = 40% 3 members = 50% 4 members = 60% 5 members = 70% 6 =40% 7 = 35% 8 = 30% 9 = 25% Just as example.
  23. Yo man i dont care about that you people are the cancers you just join a lowrate with a big clan the gms let you bot cause you bring popularity on server then you people do some boss fights and when you re fully geared or the otherside will rage quit and end the server cause none will play with a monopoly on the game,yo im the real cancer im that guy on FG pumping your shit when you tryna exp,i dont care about makin baiums ant queens thats a fakin cheat for the game you got no skills you only one f1 instead i play until 60-65 then i only pvp,you ever fought clan vs clan for just a spot?nah i dont think so you only do is baium fights for one month and when a side Swallows all the sperm they rage quit and that's the end of a game.boy you and your boys can't understand no meaning of l2 you can play on this i cant i find it real funny thats your mirage you ll never see a full Gludio with vendors when you ll see that then you ll understand whats l2
  24. AWESOME Review - Lineage II in a nutshell. Although doesn't it changes much the low rate marketing with a new chronicle (Saviors - Zaken) where most of Warpers wants to try it from 0 as a new thing without modifications? BUT i know by my own footsteps as a player (while testing stuff from official) that everything you said ABOVE was TRUE. In terms of League of Legends progression it really makes Lineage II a different game type with a re-freshed gameplay and stability. Im also looking far more into the future with this topic. Could we start as this where as you mentioned the vast majority of old L2'ers will feel like a different game i want full retail like i'm not joining... But that's the case where L2 newcomers leave to League of Legends due to the amount of attachment they have to put to simply become stronger.
  25. For me long-term purpose means mass PvP so I wouldn't want a scenario where I have to farm 2 years to start some Mass PvP fights. Definitely don't want to be lvl 65 after 1 month as well as it would e waaay too fast, but there needs to be some real time frame (6 months?) for people who can't spend more than 3-4 h a day to achieve those mid-high 60s. Remember that L2 has its best days behind it already. Doubt any private server created now will last longer than 4 years, so we don't want to farm 3 of 4 those years, just to realise that when we achieved our goals, it's time to pack
  26. Hello everyone, today I have a really lazy day at work, so decided to share with you couple of my ideas regarding how to make a succesfull l2 server nowadays. You may agree/dissagree with part of it, you may agree/dissagree with everything I said. That's fine, I might be completely wrong when sharing my ideas, BUT I'm 95% convinced that if we launch a "standard" classic server with x3-5 rates, it won't last longer then couple of months (like it did in the past), therefor we should brainstorm how to deal with this issue while we still have the time. I do realise that this is humongous wall of text that that most (all?) won't read it, but it's mainly aimed at giving my point of view to Supreeme because he's doing a lot of heavy lifting when working alone on the server and I wouldn't want to see all this work go down the drain. Ok so what's the biggest problem that most of nowadays l2 servers have ? - A big player base at the grand openning, decreasing to almost nothing over couple of weeks/months. Why is that ? Does it mean that players don't want to play l2 anymore ? - Nope, if they didn't want to play L2 we wouldn't have so many players during the grand openings Does it mean that "Classic setup" is simply bad and offered gameplay/mechanics are unacceptable by players? - Nope, most of people who join classic servers nowadays, are experienced players who done their research, have long l2 experience and they know what they came for So whats the catch ? Why people leave the game they want to play ? - In my opinion the issue lays in the outdated progression scheme of the game and complete dominance of orginised groups over casual/solo players Average profile of a gamer nowadays changed a lot. People spend a lot less time playing just 1 product. They often ike playing moba, shooters and strategy games at the same time, meaning they invest a lot less time on just 1 product. This isn't a problem in mentioned type of games because these games have their ranking systems. They tell the players: > Ok so you have 1h a day to play the game? No problem mate, we will find you peoploe who spend similar ammount of time and have similar to yours experience/skill level in the game to make it feel fair for you So even when investing little time into a particular gaming product, players can still PLAY THE GAME and not feel like because of their casual approach they are missing on a big portion of the gameplay offered by the product. They are satisfied, happey and continue playing particular product. Even after getting bored, usually not long passes untill they start thinking about the good old memories from that game and decide to comeback. When they do so, matchmaking system again cares about players gaming experience and attempt to match him with players of simiar skill level rather than players who created an account at the same time. Now having above in mind, let's look what kind of narration our Lineage2 classic does with it's players. Oh hello, you are a casual player and have only 2-3 hours to play during a day ? > Don't worry my friend, that's not a problem, simply join us. Everyone starts from scratch, some will group as 9 and we will ensure that they will do everything you do but 10 times faster/easier and with less effort but don't worry, in 2 years you will reach the late game and start PvPing! (unless server dies before <evil laugh>) A glimps of how a gaming experience of a casual player in lineage 2 classic looks nowadays: Ok here are my ideas of what's wrong with this game/classic setup that needs to be tweaked/fixed in order to prolong the life of a l2 server: 1. RAID BOSSes - extremely valuable resources, very limited giving to the owners of it, extreme value for almost no time or effort investment not requireing any player skills to execute MAIN ISSUES: > Players who can't fight them (because of various reasons) are getting discouraged from the regular gameplay/grinding (their grind seems meaningless/worthless when comparing efficiency) > Promotes unhealthy/annoying/tedious/boring gameplay: checking different RB spots (meaningless running around the map/having characters made just to check different spots) spamming 1 button while fighting RB, Harassment of weaker players(groups) who wanted to contest RB at the same time controlling respawn timers - killing them so they appear when some simply can't play (at work/at school) etc wasting sometimes coupleteen minutes just to run from spot to spot - annoying, has little to do with a real gameplay > Very limited ammount/access - small number of RB compared to the playerbase size - most will never have a chance to use this resource > Creates big level/equpiment gap between players and then only increases the difference - if someone is stronger than others he will get even stronger and wider the difference - "counter-comeback mechanics" SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > Remove regular(not EPIC) RB at the start of the server once server economy/levels start to grow and market will start start to fill up with full drops, RB`s could be turn on again as a gap closer for players who joined the server later on > Leave RB but change their rewards so they offer no usable ITEMS/EXP - won't increase gap between players RB`s could drop some visual/cosmetic items with no battle stats (although those would prob be better of saved for the donations) RB`s could drop clan oriented items - items required to purchase new clan skills, Proof of Blood, items required to buy stuff at Clan Halls RB`s could drop some Quality of life (QoL) imroving stuff: tokens exchanged for special teleporting zones from Gatekeepers, temporary inventory increase, reduction of taxes when buying items in a town, buff scrolls etc 2. SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE (CP's/clans) CONTROLLING VERY VALUABLE RESOURCES (efficient farming spots, RB's) giving them huge advantage over unorginised players. Lack of comeback mechanics continously increasing gap MAIN ISSUES: > Players who can't fight them are getting discouraged from the regular gameplay/grinding (their grind seems meaningless/worthless when comparing efficiency) > Small part of community (2-4 CP) limits the gameplay of a big but unorginised/spread part of the community Basically 9 man group can scare off dozens (depends on a community size) of players over period of time who while solo/in a small party wanted to farm on a particular spot Players can't access areas on which they would like to farm Players can't access equally valuable resources as others - creates feeling of unfariness, creates big lvl/equpiment GAP > Once a group starts claiming most valuable zones, she will most likely always be stronger and continue controling mentioned areas because of lack of comeback mechanics in this game. > 9-man farming parties often promote a bad/unhealthy gameplay/behaviour where only 3-4 people are required to play/farm and rest just afk/rests/play on another account, while in smaller groups everyone has to grind during their entire farming session SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > Equalize the efficiency of different farming zones to make them more attractive and to make sure everyone finds a spot for himself Add additional mob spawns to a rarelly populated farming zones Incrase HP and at the same time EXP given by some mobs in unefficient farming areas > Decrease the total EXP that a bigger party gets and/or Increase the EXP penalty when being in bigger party Make a scheme that promotes a bit more smaller groups 3-5 man (it's very hard to make a full group out of random people, while 3-5 man is doable) Nerf a bit EXP that a 9 man groups gain - they already have the benefits of being safer, having more people to talk to (social benefits), having the ability to rest during a party etc... > Decrease the ammount of mobs you can aggro so it forces more players in a party to actively play I.E.: each character can aggro up to: 7 mobs x1 HP, 5 mobs x2 HP, 3 mobs x3+ HP aggroing 1 additional MOB over the limit, unaggros 1 previous ones additional mechanic could be made, when once you have max mob aggro limit and forceaggro another mob (provoke him by attacking/debuffing etc) then 1 of previous would un-aggro but if you had max mob aggro limit and didn't forceaggro but just run near an aggressive mob <- he wouldn't aggro on you <===== this mechanic would be to prevent wanky mechanics where mobs would start loosing aggro in random places because we ran past another aggro mob this would make it so more players would be involved in making the trains, even nukers would/could have to help and gather these extra 2-3 mobs, which couldn't be aggroed by SWS/BD and if someone was lazy and wanted to rest, party would jusst be slightly less efficient 3. Screwed up and VERY DEMOTIVATING LEVELING/PROGRESSION CURVE MAIN ISSUES: > Once players reach 50s, leveling speed drops heavily greatly discouraging less hardcore/casual gamers, because sometimes even after couple (2-4) hours of grind each day, they notice almost no progression (especially when not having the luxury of playing with CP and doing trains) > Such leveling curve guarantees that late game won't be achievable for casual players (Sizeable part of community) even after a year of farming > Lack of players who reach late game, means lack of players who are PvPing (we all know that PvP against 10 lvl higher ppl is pointless), meaning Hardcore Grinders will be lacking actuall enemies and get bored what can result in: harassing and killing a lot lower players for no real reason <- resulting in them leaving the server limitation of parts of core gameplay: mass PvPs (9v9-18v18 isn`t a mass pvp in my vocabulary) for EPIC RB's, castles, playerbase for interesting tournaments leaving the server SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > Change the Experience tables so there isn't that heavy increase of EXP required for next level after lvl 50s. My suggestion would be: 50-60 should be 2 times slower than 40-50 (if you need 2h of grind to level from 45 to 46, then it should take 4 hours of grind to level from 56 to 57 and 8h of grind to level from 66 to 67) 60-70 should be 4 times slower than 40-50 70-74 since it won't be necessary/game breaking untill S grades come into play, can be like current high levels (I would probably make it 40 times slower than 40-50) - grind fest so that there's is something to do when you are bored - end game, hard to achieve goal to give them hardcore gamers a purpose to live and play sorry but I don't remember the flat EXP values so the exact changes would definitely have to be thought out by someone smarter than me Just pointing out what kind of proportions I would keep 4. LATE GAME CONTENT which should be core of the gameplay ISN'T REACHABLE FOR VAST MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERBASE MAIN ISSUES: > this was mentioned already in different subjects but I want stress this point out and when saying "late game content", I don't mean having max lvl and a OE`d top A equpiment. Late game content to me means having 68+level and A grade equpiment allowing you to at least somewhat fight against maxed out characters during the mass PvP's like EPIC and Siege's 5. UNHEALTHY for the gameplay CLASSES/MECHANICS DISTRUPTING THE ECONOMY and/or promoting passive/lack of gameplay MAIN ISSUES: (personally I don't understand the purpose of a Warsmiths and Spoilers in Lineage2 from a gameplay experience point of view - pick a semi-useless PvP wise - yes i know they can stun but why would you pick them for PvP over Gladiator/Dark Avenger/Warlord - class in order to perform dumb actions -> afk on the market - or use "spoil" on a mob and pull out a recepie for a bow out of his ass) > classes like warsmith/bounty hunter promotes boring and meaningless gameplay -> warsmith afk in town and do nothing -> bounty hunter, cast 2 abilities that make no logical sense and gather items of huge value > warsmith and spoilers are definitions of BOX characters <- there is probably like 2% of players who WANT to play these classes actively rest are just clan boxes or players who play it because friends/CP/clan NEEDED it > having almost entire item crafting system dependant on a warsmith class creates a lot of annoyance and risks: unorginised players will often have huge issues in crafting particular items because of problems in finding a crafter lack of consumable crafters at certain hours can completely distrupt other people gameplay (someone logs in to play at night when everyone is sleeping, server crashes, restart, no shops online <- you can't farm shots <- cant play/farm for the most part) decrease in server population or some random stuff like vacations, national holidays can easily create a shortage in the production/supply of important stuff > Because both classes are almost useless in terms of late game PvP (excluding SIEGE golem<- but even then it's usually just a boxed character) in 90% of cases they are played stricktly as a CLAN/CP boxes. These groups/parties can easily order 2 of their members to afk in the party, while exping on the other game client their WS/BH box Creates huge economical gap/distruptancy between such groups and casual players who can't afk exp their mains while actively leveling up crafter/spoiler SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > Add in each town a NPC crafter, crafting ANY consumable/material item for a LOW fee and equpiment for a REASONABLY HIGH fee (B grade weapon -3kk (?)/ armor part-300k(?)) NPC crafters should already know all the RCPs without the need of wasting RCP "to learn it" before actually crafting an item Players who still want to gain economical edge/save on not having to pay NPCs could just make WS anyway, but the profits wouldn't be that astronomical Would remove the annoyance factor when players can't find a crafter willing to craft required for them goods (crafting shots sometimes is a nightmare) Would finally make the no grade/d/c grade crafting a thing, because players would always have a crafter ready to create a unpopular low tier equpiment part for them ad hoc > Remove bountyhunters (Ye I realise it won't happen, but I'll write it for the luls :P) > Change how bounty hunter works In order to sweep a target BH should be obligated to inflict over 50% of the dmg to a MOB (he should earn/work for the spoil not just watch how CP party wrecks a train and then proceeds to become a W. Buffet in a second) otherwise sweep shouldn't be available 6. FORCED AND MEANINGLESS CLASS QUESTS MAIN ISSUES: > Class quests have no real purpose in this game other than artificially forcing the user to waste his time on a completely unpleasant tasks creates a lot of annoyance and prevents players from actually playing the game like they want to, and instead forces them to run around the map in random places > These type of quests often come in pair with the issue of having multiply bugs preventing from finishing them > Such quests are additional barrier for newer players who might not know them, or played on server where you could buy class change items forces some players to look for online guides which sometimes might be updated createing unnecessary game barriers creates great annoyance when players are looking for some quest monsters whose spawn could slightly change as time passes/or well implemented in a wrong spot SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > Remove Class Quests or make them optional > Add class change items buyable from grocers in towns (for a rather low price: 1st class change - 50k(?), 2nd class change 3 x 100k(?) > Optional: replace class quests with a generic quest where once player tells an npc he wants to change a class, he receives a quest to kill XXX(?) mobs (no matter the type) of similar to him level (don't know how hard it would be to code this). Could but don't have to add additional requirements to make it more demanding i.e.: have to be without a party Cannot receive any buffs from other characters Needs to fight yellow or red mobs only Cannot use shots 7. if you weren't at the start of the server YOU WILL NEVER COMPENSATE FOR THAT MAIN ISSUES: > Clan Halls shouldn't be premanent since it discourages new groups/clans who might consider joining a server SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > each clan hall should be owned only for a period of 3(?) months who gains the privilage to rent a clan hall could be decided based on a clan tournament where people who managed to get highest in the tournament rooster gain the ability to choose which clan halls they want to rent 8. LONG TRAVEL TIMES and limited gatekeeper teleportation capabilities MAIN ISSUES: > Sometimes running to a farming spot can take even over 5-10 minutes (i.e. EG) during which player is basically dying due to boredom creates annoyance Artificially takes away players (often very limited) playing time > Gatekeeper has a very limited ammount of teleporting spots when traveling to different towns often you have to click 20 times and travel through 5 different locations before you acutally get where you want (can take even over minute) SUGGESTIONS/SOLUTIONS: > We should add additional teleportation spots to some well known and liked locations > for 1-2 minutes after teleporting via gatekeeper characters should receive a gatekeepers Wind Song and Wind Walk2 buff (so basically we would a temporary mvoement speed increase to get faster to our spot) which would be automatically lost upon being attacked, targeted by a MOB or when walking in range of 1800(?) near a flagged/PK character > When teleporting via Gatekeeper there should be an option "OTHER TOWNS" after pressing which we would receive a full list of all towns that you can teleport to so i.e. you could TP directly from Talking Islands to Hunters Village (factoring increased teleportation cost of course) I know that a lot if not all of my observations/suggestions might look terryfing to plenty of old veteran players but the truth is that Lineage 2 never was a perfect game. It's a great game but nontheless has lots of concept/design flaws which in my opinion are the main reason to why people who waited years for a particular server, are leaving after playing for couple weeks/months. I do realise as well that many of mentioned issues aren't a problem for guys who already have their CP and will overcome them without a problem, but you gota remember that you are a minority. Most of server community always consists of solo players or small groups of 2-4 friends who get really demotivated when seeing how discriminated they are compared to full CPS. If you ignore their needs, you will suddenly end up playing on a 100 online server. In the past I was a hardcore grinder as well, and was spending 6-7 hours a day grinding my stuff to pwn these noobs who suck because they have too little time to play the game. Back then I enjoyed as well wrecking people because they didn't have anthy/valky/zaken and strong augmentations on their gear, but the truth is that nowadays gamers are different. There is a lot more casual players who are the core of the playerbase and if you discourage them in the early or mid game, they will leave without a hasitation because hey: It's just a freaking old ass game made by a bunch of Koreans, why would I put myself into this suffer grind watching other kiddos(CP/orginised clans) put a lot less effort into the grind but benefiting 9821419824 times more than I do.
  27. + 1000 I voted for the x1 Yes, It was me
  28. I feel that this pool has 1 flaw Supreme: When someone wants a box, but doesn`t want to pay for it, he can choose only the option of main +2 boxes or main +3 boxes. I'm 90% convinced that mosst people who voted for main +free box + premium box, if were given the option to vote for main + free box, they would do it without any hasitation. Now I'm not saying that a premium box is a bad thing, because server definitely needs some funding to selfsustain itself, but if you wana trully understand what ammount of boxes people want, you should make a new pool with an option: > Main + free box and from there decide how to tackle this issue. Atm pool results are screwed and I'm sure that most of us would definitley prefer just 1 box if were asked "how many boxes allowed do we want"
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